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July 21, 2025 -- 8:49 PM
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go back to maingo to old version

June 28, 2004 -- 10:59 AM
posted by Beck

    I'd vote if I could.

    And back to the Michael Moore thing... you've got to know that everything in that movie is 100% factual. Michael Moore vs. George Bush is a case of the little fish attacking the big fish. If any minute detail was wrong Michael Moore would have been crushed. The only way this movie could have survived long enough to even make it to theaters is if everything had been double/triple checked for authenticity. I'm not saying the movie isn't biased toward a certain political ideology, or intended to get a point across, but at least what is shown is the truth and not some made up bullshit.
    My only hope is that he's not preaching to the converted - that people other than left wing Michael Moore fans go to see it. If Fahrenheit 9/11 could get better distribution (it's only playing in 868 theaters all over the states) and the masses have a chance to see it I think it could actually help swing the election away (or further away) from Bush.

June 28, 2004 -- 10:04 AM
posted by alison

    AN OPEN LETTER TO CANADIAN VOTERS FROM RALPH NADER
    here's the cbc link
    June 25th, 2004

    It is out of affection for Canada that I tender the following:

    Caveat, voters, next Monday.

    Stephen Harper and the Conservatives have plans for crippling the
    commonwealth and security of the Canadian standard of living, known
    worldwide as just about the finest among sizable nations. Mr. Harper and
    the Conservatives are sympathetic with the Fraser Institute's plan for a
    corporatist Canada that tears away your common safety net. The Fraser
    Institute would choose to insidiously undermine your national health
    insurance system bit by bigger bit -- on the installment plan.

    If you want to see the Fraser Institute and the Conservatives' plan for
    Canadians, come to the U.S., where health care for many Americans is
    based on a pay -or-die model. Forty-five million Americans -- women, men
    and children -- have no insurance coverage, and the number of uninsureds
    is increasing. The prestigious Institute of Medicine estimates 18,000
    Americans die every year because they cannot afford to see a doctor or
    go to a hospital. In the US, most working people have lost their freedom
    to choose a doctor or hospital because their corporate HMO plans assign
    such service. Hundreds of billions of dollars are wasted annually on
    bureaucracy, administrative expenses, and massive computerized billing
    fraud and abuse (see www.citizen.org, or Harvard professor Malcolm
    Sparrow's book License to Steal). Furthermore, average health care
    expenses per capita are much higher in the US than in Canada --
    and not only drug prices.

    Voters beware. You are, in part, understandably reacting to the recent
    scandal touching the incumbent party. Do not overreact. You have a third
    major choice -- the NDP -- or other parties. Don't indirectly vote for
    the Fraser Institute and its positions of anti-law and order for
    corporations -- policies threatening to become your future government's
    policies. You'll pay: under the Conservatives, large corporations,
    including those from other countries, will have more say than ever --
    Reagan/Bush/BushII style. Please maintain and advance your civil
    society.

    There are many Americans who, over the decades, have looked to Canada
    for social justice initiatives to emulate. About ten years ago, I
    co-authored a book, Canada Firsts, which became a 42-week bestseller in
    your country. Canada Firsts described many Canadian "firsts" that found
    their way south to our country -- including credit unions. We need an
    independent, humane Canada. It is in such a spirit that I submit these
    views for your consideration.

    Best wishes for justice,
    Ralph Nader



    GO VOTE TODAY!

June 28, 2004 -- 12:08 AM
posted by edo

June 28, 2004 -- 12:08 AM
posted by Par

    But don't take my word for it
    I always thought it was the kids who said that, upon reviewing the book.

June 28, 2004 -- 12:08 AM
posted by edo

June 28, 2004 -- 12:02 AM
posted by nobody knows my face

    M. Mash, I agree with you completely. And I do think what Michael Moore is doing is an incredibly important thing. However, it's just as dangerous to say "Hey, we can trust Michael Moore" and internalize his ideas without doing a little of our own research to verify it, and even more importantly; to do some "soul-searching" and stop and ask ourselves "given the facts, what do I think?". It's too easy for people to say "hey, Mr. Moore thinks this, so I do too". Agreeing with Michael Moore without questioning his own biases is somewhat ironically defeating his own agenda. Ultimately he's trying to get people (especially in Fahrenheit 9/11) to understand that we're being spoon-fed bullshit (aka "propaganda") at all times on all fronts. It's a sad fact that tens-of-thousands (if not millions) of Fahrenheit 9/11 viewers will say "yep, that film looks about right" and not stop for a second to question it. Although this is kind of a good thing since it's providing a counter-assault against Bush's twisted version of the truth, it's not a real solution to anything at all; that's just people behaving the same as they did before, except they're mindlessly following a new leader. Of course, if somebody persuasive enough (like Moore) can tap into that and sway some opinions toward a truer point-of-view, that's obviously a good thing... but unless people actively change the way they arrive at their decisions, we're ultimately fighting a losing battle.

    All I'm really trying to say is that changing opinions only goes so far. Changing your way-of-life... specifically the way you view, and how you question your environment on a second-to-second basis is the only way we will ever accomplish any amount of REAL change. Changing minds is easy, changing people is another matter altogether.

    In my last post I left you with the title of a Morcheeba album: "Who Can You Trust?"

    If you think you truly understand what I'm trying to say, I implore you to stop reading for just a second and ask yourself what the answer to the question "WHO CAN YOU TRUST?" should be- do it RIGHT NOW BEFORE READING ANY FURTHER.


    Did you do it?

    Okay, if you did then continue reading.

    So, what was your answer to the question? Was it something like this: "You can't trust ANYONE. You can only trust yourself."? Was it? And now once again I implore you to stop reading and take a second to ask yourself whether or not you agree with the answer "no one but yourself" before you continue reading.

    So... do you agree with it? Is it YES, or is it NO? If you've decided, then please continue reading.

    Well, if you agreed that the answer to "Who can you trust?" is "no one but yourself", then I'm completely and utterly disappointed. In my limited experience, the only answer to that question is "Trust no one; even and especially yourself."

    And it is that one very answer which I believe is the very truest essence of punk. For me, that is the lowest-common-denominator of absolute truth in this universe.

    Or as Reading Rainbow's LeVar Burton so aptly put it, "But don't take my word for it".

June 27, 2004 -- 10:36 PM
posted by p.s.

kiss my ass paras

June 27, 2004 -- 10:32 PM
posted by M. Mash

    i havent seen farenheit 9/11 yet but im planning on it... as for moore's 'distortion' of the facts to heighten the presention of a particular ideological viewpoint, i still find him more honest than just about any other media outlet, at least in america... hes upfront about the ideology that informs his worldview, so when u watch any piece of work by him ure aware of that and can watch it accordingly.... not like 90% of media that wraps itself in a false shroud of objectivity, as if thats ever possible to achieve... its dangerous to read anything and believe that its a completely objective, unbiased point of view, every single thing in the media is driven a particular ideology..... even if what is presented is 100% factually correct, whats left out is just as important, and u have to ask why did they leave this or that piece of information out.... so moore twisted some facts to better fit the argument he presented and amke a flashier movie, so what... in this day and age how information is presented is just as or more important than what is actually being said... if it doesnt look and sound good then people wont consume it, just like they wont consume a shitty-looking pair of sneakers... its no different than what occurs on fox tv, cnn, cbc, new york times, globe and mail, etc....besides in the realm of human affairs how many solid facts are there.... sure the sky is blue and shit dont smell too good, but other than that everything can be distorted one way or another depending on the ideology u view the world through, like sunglasses with lenses of different colours... to an anti-choice (even the decision to choose that term is ideological, as opposed to pro-life) advocate it is a fact that abortion is the murder of an unborn baby, but a pro-lifer would definitely not agree with that.... it is downright foolish to demand objectivity from the media in a world ruled by subjectivity, the best u can do is to inform yourself of the ideology the information u are consuming is being filtered through, and either regard or disreagrd it accordingly

    this eric-esque philosophical diatribe brought to you by, with lots of love,

    M.Mash

June 27, 2004 -- 9:59 PM
posted by Par

    Careful, Beck... You're starting to sound like Percy...

    ... Then I'll really be in trouble.

June 27, 2004 -- 7:15 PM
posted by Beck

    Yeah....
    I still think a few well planned assassinations would be a good thing.

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