"Any psychologist can tell you that once somebody has invested in something, then tend to believe it was worth their time and effort and money... even if it wasn't."

hahah, it's quite obvious that no one here's going to convince you that the iPOD is better, so there's really no point in trying. looks like it's definately you and Leo in one this one.

i will however make a rebutal to your arguments, mostly in your critique of Sony not putting more emphasis on recording technology of the MD.

1. "How many "joe blow wish-they-could-be-DJs" out there are gonna buy an MPC?"
Yes, you are correct, none will be an MPC. but the reason is because THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WANNA BE JOE BLOW DJ. my original point was that anyone who is serious enough to consider doing sampling will just go out and buy a machine specifically designed to do so. for the MD to include a focus on sampling would mean, as you said for Sony to buddle in software. this ofcourse means more money. even if it was 150 dollars more (which is impossibly dirt cheap compared with all music making/editing software out on the market) that's probably 150 dollars the regular consumer doesn't want to spend. let's face it, not only do most consumers not have any interest in making music, or the novelty of sampling, frankly most consumers do not even have the interest of listening to GOOD MUSIC. they just need a machine that serves the purpose of helping them get through a bus ride without having to talk to the crazy lady sitting next to them- whether or not that means getting an iPOD is really up to personal preference.

2. even for people that use recording technology, like yourself, ask yourself really, How Often do you use that feature? my guess is not terribly often. and though it's handy to have when you need it, the cost of paying over a hundred dollars for a feature that will rarely be employed is just something an AVERAGE CONSUMER will be willing to concede. that's why i think the Sony Marketing people are not focusing on it. Plus let's face it, recording a boring lecture isn't going to make it less boring.
Now admitedly the iPOD's recording capabilities are lame at best (MONO MONO, get the MONO MONO) however, so far to the market, that's fine. you wanna know why? because most busy body business go-getter yuppies 1) don't go to concerts 2) don't know what a bootleg is 3) don't know what sampling is -so really they only need the recording for the board/bored-room.
now if it was up to me, hell yes i would have made the generation3 iPod with stereo recording, but, meh. i'm not losing sleep over not being able to record farts on ice.

3. to make the best of recording shit on the fly you need a good mic. now, Sony has made a nice little uni directional, pretty much the size of an iTRIP, but it's kinda costly - $100. that or you could carry around a nice SM57 everywhere you go. but that's not being reasonable. the other option is an onboard Mic, and those are always a question of 1) quality stand point, and again, 2) to the average consumer we're talking exta COST COST COST.

So really what i'm trying to say is the recording aspect is totally irrelevent to the Average Consumer. let's face it, if the Walkman in the 80s/90s came out with an onboard mic, or recording technology that feature would not have made it more appealing than a Walkman without. especially since it offers the possibility of recording over music that you actually want to listen to (what can i say, if you create the possibility of accident, it WILL occur)

the point that i take issue with your argument is that you're trying to use this rationale of how the Features of the MD are better than the iPOD, and that the only reason for the iPOD's sucess is the marketing, pure and simple. but i think this does not give the designers of the iPOD due credit.
frankly as it's been played out here the Features argument is debatable, and really depending on personal necessity, yes, one is better than the other depending on context (or even in Beck's case, neither one is the best option) - so really the Features is not what's at stake. True Apple's Marketing has been slick and ubiquitous and immediately recognizable, but i think much of the original success of the iPOD was simply the design and interface of the machine.
i'm not sure if you remember, but a year and a half to two years ago the mp3 player market was FLOODED with all sorts of different players. and prior to getting my iPOD i was considering the CREATIVE LABS NOMAD. the nomad actually offered quite a bit: 1) better sound quality - again to the average consumer unnoticable, but to the high end audiophille there's a difference. but i figured since i'll be sitting on a bus with shitty headphones anyways, i don't really need to hear "Gin and Juice" they way it was meant to be heard 2) Higher Capacity for a 3) CHEAPER COST . basically Creative's slogan was, $100 cheaper, 20 GIGS more. that's right the 40GB player a year and a half ago was still cheaper than the 20GB iPOD.
just as a reference, SONY at the time was offering it's best NET MD at something like 550 - to me, COMPLETE NONSENSE and THE principle reason Sony dropped the ball.

so what was it that got me to get the iPOD?

it's exactly what you said: the scrolly wheel.
the second you touch that shit you KNOW, it's solid, it feels good, and it's a beautiful design to how to navigate through all those songs. the multipurpose of that design, just brilliant. it was that, and when the backlit goes on, holy shit i almost had an orgasm the first time i saw that.

so i think it was the scrolly wheel, and the solid construction of the machine, PLUS the smaller size advantage, and the (possibly untrue) constructed notion of the iPOD being less fragile than the Nomad and other players that made it the number one mp3 player. after taking over the market, yes, you can chalk it up everyone else being a retard for being sold strictly on the marketing of the iPOD being ...no i wouldn't say Apple markets it as better. definately as cooler than anything else. and again, i realize that's what you take issue with. but again, it's not just about status, the features, frankly were and are never as important as we might assume them to be and this is the fallacy of our understanding of technology. to most people, it's just GOOD enough.

if Sony wants to get back into the game they've gotta do something more than just promote features - as what you were suggesting. for one they can try making they shit A HELL OF A LOT CHEAPER. that might convince people. *shrug. maybe something inovative like encorporating Blue Tooth - i mean, the only thing i can think of as being better than anything else would be if you have a portable player that is basically a reciever, and your Computer or a Network is the sender/provider - that way you're not bogged with capacity, you could potentially have a 500 GIG player in the palm of your hands- but that's not a reality just yet.

but hey, i know ...maybe less than 10 people (around 7) who own iPODs, and a lot more whom don't. NOW's possibly the only chance that Sony (or any other company) will have to beat the iPOD, especially when EVERYONE is now thinking of ditching their CD player to upgrade to a high capacity Player.

Hey Tay... methinks you are at a different vantagepoint than the average user. That's all it is, nothing more. You are looking for more specific features than most people need, they really just want quick access to their whole music collection. As far as I'm aware most people really can't tell the quality difference to the extent you can, so you will naturally be more picky about what you purchase and endorse.

Obviously I'm having some trouble letting go of this iPod/MD debate. I think I'm just secretly hoping somebody will convince me that the iPod IS better just so I can understand where everyone else in this world seems to be coming from... but it's not happening. I'm still chalking this one up to marketing. Ah well.

Why does everyone always complain about MD prices? I don't understand that at all. The top of the line MD model is already cheaper than top of the line iPods. MDs need little motors to move the reading arm and rotate the disc and lazer lenses and stuff like that... what does an iPod need that makes it cost so much? It's just a mini hard-drive... and hard-drives are dirt cheap these days. Shouldn't the iPod then be cheaper to make? Oh wait... don't tell me: it's that damn scrolly wheel that costs so much to manufacture isn't it?


Admittedly that scrolly-wheel is good fun though...

huh. apparently Hassan Ibrahim, the journalist intellectual confronting Lt. Josh Rushing with the statement that "the US Bombed the Hell out of Baghdad", in Control Room, is responsible for this little ditty, Sawwaq el hanem (1993) listed on IMDB as part of the genre of Musical / Comedy / Romance

Sony Canada's List of HD MDs

i paid i think 680 last year when i got my Pod, but shucks, 600 bucks (i think) i still a lot to have to pay for an MD. the least expensive one is more reasonable at 250 bucks, and i would agree if it was a toss up between the iPOD mini and this MD, the MD would probably be an overall better choice to the end consumer. I don't really know much about MDs, but one of the best things i find with my POD is the playlist features, especially the On-the-Go playlists. essentially being able to make your create your own set, on the go, is something that as far as i know, MDs do not offer -and that's a feature they should definately consider encorporating. that would however require that the discs not only record the information, but that there be some sort of database structure to the files.

CONTROL ROOM IN GAWD AWFUL STREAMING REAL AUDIO

brought to you by,
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info

that's a good name.

BECK, hey, STUPIDITY THE DOCUMENTARY IS UP ON SUPRNOVA

Stupidity the Doc

and this was a pretty great episode of FRONTLINE
Rumsfield's War

oh and to respond, my iTRIP has not given me any problems thus far.
i've said it before and i'll say it again, my car's entenna is the thing that's wonky. i've run the iTRIP on all sorts of different radios (including, Taylor, your van's radio) and it was working in perfectly good stereo. i can say unequivically that the iTRIP is the best add-on to the iPOD and because of this awesome third party support this one of the reasons people are drawn to the iPOD

no i was serious. Sony's aim is for the Network Walkman is trying to do everything the iPod currently does, except better. better compression meaning up to twice the capacity (i'm not big on ATTRAC 3 or whatever, but it offers the potential of 13,000 songs compared to the iPod's 4000) better battery life, a comparable interface.

i think were you to ask anyone working at SONY whether the HD-MD or the Network Walkman was in any more direct competition with the iPOD i'm pretty sure they'd say the latter.