Err, Microsoft Windows that is.

OoooOoo, score one post for moi.

Death to windows!

best nerd movie title ever, "SLQ of Rock"
thanks Chris.

Wow, that's pretty cool that the Lexar player has the FM Transmitter and Voice Recorder built in.

Ok, folks. I changed over the message board to a mySQL database. I think I have everything cleaned up and working. Pretty much the same rules as in October: test the limits if you want. If it breaks, let me know (I think that's what e-mail is for...)

I have a NetMD, it does it's job... I can't tell the difference between a 128 MP3/192 MP3/cd and I live with someone who has an iPod. Frankly I think some sort of a hybrid would be best. The MD is great on battery life, but sucks for disk space (I don't have the 1 gig version) and I like the removable media thing. The iPod has a built in rechargeable battery which unfortunately for AD gets worse over time. Both have pretty shitty software necessary for file transfer.

I'm looking at getting the Lexar LDP600 when my MD craps out.
It has the removable media (1 gig) plus the 512MB built in, plays MP3 and WAV files without converting to a different format. It doubles as a removable mass storage device. It has no software required, it shows up as a USB device and you just drop the files in there. Unfortunately it has the same battery style as the iPod, built in custom rechargable. But it also comes with all the bells and whistles (ie. FM transmitter) that are not available for the MD or cost an extra $50-$70 each for the iPod. It's also priced at $130 - $170 US which kicks the crap out of either the iPod or MD.
It probably doesn't have the features that Tay is looking for, but it fits just about everything I want... except the damn battery... but nothing is *perfect*

i'll save my real rebutal, and snide comments about the SONY STORE for later when i have more time.

the REAL Sony iPod killer / Sony's Network Walkman

Heh, funny I have something to comment on this conversation.

I'm surprized you didn't mention any of the specs Taylor or else you would have posted your ideas differently, or not at all. ;)

Relatively recently Sony release the Hi-MD to replace the NetMD. The new MDs are 1GB in size and can potentially hold 45hrs of music, depending on the level of compression you choose (and if you do use compression, the ATRAC3plus codec has been improved over ATRAC3 so you can have more music byte for byte). Alternatively, you can record in uncompressed PCM audio. The Hi-MDs also work as external USB drives as well, only question is can they be set to play music and transfer data at the same time (probably yes.) As for discs, a single disc costs 11$ and cheaper if you get them bundled. Battery life with the Hi-MDs is aproximately 25+ hours with a single alkaline (more if you use Ni-MH, with my NetMD I get 50+hrs on a single one.)

As for makers of MiniDisc players, Kenwood and Panasonic also make players but I have only seen a small handfull of them (and as far as I know, aren't available in North America) so effectively Sony's pretty much the only source.

And as far as listening to others' music collections, if I want to listen to the music you're listening to with MDs you just pop out the disc, hand it over and be on your way, something I have done on many occasions. With iPods (as far as I understand) there is no direct transfer from one to the other (this is possible with MDs, but must be done in real time ie. second for second so that doesn't provide much of an advantage) and I don't think too many people would be willing to trade a couple hundred dollar iPod to someone so they can listen to your music, I'd rather go for the $4 (for std MDs) option. As for transfering songs from computer iPods are limited to computers that have iTunes already installed. Hi-MDs/NetMDs also require computers have SonicStage installed, but can record using analogue/optical input as well.

The Hi-MD has made a potential iPod killer, but Sony has done very little do market the MD in general. The technology's been around since the early 90s and only recently has gained some popularity of a sort in North America (in Japan MDs are pretty much king over there)

Hi-MD
Pros: removeable data medium, direct recording in multiple formats (computer, analogue, optical), battery life (25+hrs), decent cost ($250-$600 CDN), can act as an external drive, upgradeable firmware, reverse compatability with NetMD, weight 3-4 oz, remote control standard on all players except one low end model, can use any "AA" battery as power source, preloads songs (aprox 6 minutes, good for battery, bad for shock resistance)
Cons: small disc capacity, very poor marketing, USB 1.1 transfer, requires external software, no additional features, small consumer base (I personally don't see that many more iPods than MD players actually), small display

iPod
Pros: large disc capacity, excellent marketing, USB 2.0/Firewire transfer, various PDA/daytimer functions, weight 6 oz, standard backlit display, large and easily viewable interface, can act as an external drive, fast battery charge, preloads songs (aprox 25 minutes, bad for battery, good for shock resistance), wide consumer appeal
Cons: expensive built-in battery, Cost ($430-$560 CDN), requires external software, can record only through additional microphone ($50 CDN), battery life (max 12hrs), can only use built-in battery

In my opinion, the major advantages of the Hi-MD are the battery "universality", recording ability (definitely comes in handy when u want to sleep through a lecture), portable drive ability, removable (and exchangeable) discs and cost. The biggest disadvantage would be the capacity of the discs themselves. Advantages for the iPod are large disc capacities, easy interface/display, portable drive ability. Major disadvantages would be the relatively high cost and the dependence on the short life built-in battery.

I once considered getting an iPod, but decided to buy a NetMD some time ago so I'm a bias towards the MD, but I believe that in the long run the MD is a better investment overall.

Also, did you guys notice how much superior the japanese site for the new MD is? I think that just proves my point. Since MDs have the majority market in japan over iPods (thanks to the fact that they actually MARKETED MDs there before the iPod came out), advertising it will make a difference over there. However, since they missed the boat on the overseas markets and since the iPod has instead won over the consumer majority, any marketing campaigns here are just a pointless pursuit.

I think this is a prime example of how effective advertising can really be. I actually find it to be quite an interesting sociological and psychological case study.

Yes Paras, as you suspected: you're wrong. Sony holds no monopoly on the production of minidiscs. In fact, they hold no monopoly on the production of minidisc players or recorders either. The first MiniDisc player I bought wasn't even a Sony, and Aiwa used to make the best ones until Sony bought the company out. In fact, I prefer JVCs minidiscs over Sony's because they're cheaper and they hold 80 minutes as opposed to 74 (on the current ATRAC format with the least compression. I actually get about 3.5 hours of time on the slightly more compressed ATRAC 2 which is of very comparable fidelity).

Paras, I thought about the bluetooth thing too. I came to the idea while thinking "what if the Nintendo DS and the minidisc were combined???". That would be fuckin amazing. However, the RIAA would never allow it to happen. EVER. But for mix tapes... who says you'd have to fill the whole thing? At five bucks a disc they're almost dispensable. Just trade discs with your buddy and neither of you have lost anything. Hell, you could put entire applications on them and when your friend's done with it, return it to you and you could use it again and again. Think floppy discs but WAAAAAY better.

Eric- I think your argument is totally flawed. How many "joe blow wish-they-could-be-DJs" out there are gonna buy an MPC? Are you fuckin kidding me? Even IF they could afford it, they wouldn't have the time or patience to figure it out. Hell, I have a hard enough time operating one. And sure, maybe it would raise some eyebrows but why would the included software have to sample from field recordings either? Why couldn't it sample from their music collection? Technically, giving it that ability isn't illegal. If the end-user produces something illegal, that's there problem. It'd be a nice fuck you the RIAA too. How you gonna stop it? You can't.

You also said:

"DJs do more than just simply sample their source- they edit, cut, pitch shift and all sorts of other production on their samples".

I know that. That's exactly what that bundled software would do. Think how popular that program Fruity Loops is. It's the fuckin shittiest production program out there, and yet every wanna-be DJ out there uses it because it's idiot-proof. For the most part, the program makes the music, not the individual. Fuck- that waitress we had from LA at Red Robin uses Fruity Loops... you think SHE really knows anything about music? Granted I could be wrong, but I highly doubt she does. Hell, there are kontact plugins that cut apart samples and randomly re-arrange them into glitch beats for you (no work required); and those plugins are made by one guy as a hobby in his spare time! It would be relatively simple to throw together something like that. And if you gave it a frequency analyzer it could extract samples of certain base frequencies and randomly piece together harmonies and melodies for you. "Hip" glitch heaven for the layman!!! Everybody can be a shittier Prefuse 73! Woo! And now this only furthers mix-tape concept because EVERYBODY would want to trade their mixes with each other to show off how "amazing" they are! You can't just hit up kazaa/soulseek/limewire and download your buddy's beats. It ain't gonna come up.

Tom: if sony's trying to capture the mass market, why don't they market their MDs? There was never any real ad campaign to push it... even BEFORE the iPod came out. Also, I think it's funny you say 40GB on an iPod is too much. For me, I have the opposite complaint with the iPod; it wouldn't be enough. I could never fit my entire collection on that. I'd need closer to 60 or 80 gigs. And once all that space is filled up, I don't wanna hafta start deleting shit to add new tracks. I just wanna pop in a new blank disc; and that's a feature that the MD has that the iPod does not. Also, how can you say there will never be an iPod killer? I can guarantee you in 20 years, there will be no iPods. No technological format ever lasts that long. Hell, in 20 years there won't even be MDs. We'll have fuckin' computer chips in our brain that make music off our thoughts or some shit like that. Well, maybe not THAT. But you know what I mean. The question is, how long will it take to overthrow the iPod and WHO's going to do it? Admittedly, I don't think the MD will overthrow it, and I don't think anyone WILL overthrow it for at LEAST another 4 or 5 years.

And why won't that happen? I'll tell you why:

Even though I believe all my arguments are sound, true and justified, there are 3 reasons this won't happen:

1. The iPod has already captured a majority market of those looking to buy portable music players. Any psychologist can tell you that once somebody has invested in something, then tend to believe it was worth their time and effort and money... even if it wasn't. You can tell an iPod owner all you want that an MD is better... but they just dropped $400 on that unit and they'll never admit it to themselves much less you that you're right. An iPod owner would not readily betray their affiliation for something only slightly superior.

2. Sony inexplicably has not marketed their MDs outside of Japan. I don't know why. But judging from their past history I doubt they'll market this new format either. It would take a lot of time and money to rival Apple's marketing anyway. It's just a lot of work. I suspect they realize what I just wrote in point number 1... and so any advertising on their part is just preaching to the choir. It will only convince anti-iPod enthusiasts to buy their alternative. And since MDs are the only REAL viable alternative to the iPod (and those other iPod-similar devices), those people will probably buy and MD whether or not Sony has marketed it to them.

3. The third reason is that the average consumer just doesn't care about the points I've made. I realize this and understand it. Right now thanks to the brilliant marketing strategies that Apple employed, the iPod is en vogue. EVERYBODY ELSE HAS ONE. The average person thinks to themselves "I don't wanna be the loser WITHOUT one!"... and I think that the ubiquitous and readily-recognizable white-corded earbuds have had a LOT to do with the current fashionability of iPods. The quality of their sound production makes no difference.


In conclusion, I think if Sony spent billions on advertising they could capture a good portion of the market... but it's a big IF, and it's almost not worth it to take the gamble. As such, even though I hope I'm wrong, I highly doubt that the this new MD format will be the iPod killer. But I DO 100% guarantee that once the iPod killer DOES come around, it will share some of the properties of MDs that the iPod lacks. I'd put good money on that.